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help on water: oil level not right TR-1

CarolinaJet

Jet Boat Addict
Messages
162
Reaction score
154
Points
117
Location
North Carolina
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2021
Boat Model
AR
Boat Length
21
Help needed. Changed oil last night, not my first time. Took out 3.2qts, added 3.2 qts. Very sure on the math there. Dip stick tube is completely full after running engine on the lake for 5 mins. Then waited 5 mins, ran again for 5. Still appears full. Any ideas??? Thank you.
 
Stop using immediately until you can correct the oil level.
 
You cannot just add in the same amount of oil you took out. You have to add oil incrementally to get to the correct oil level
 
The fact that the engines were so over full is evidence of that.

You had a lot of oil left in the engines that’s why it was so over full.
 
Pulled the boat, heading home to figure it out. No longer an on water problem.
Hopefully you can get home and set oil levels to correct level and get back out there !
 
There is a procedure to adding oil on a tr1 i believe if you added all the oil to the valve cover, then you did it wrong. Only add 1/2 quart to the valve cover, then you put 2 quarts in the fill on the rear of the engine, start it for a few seconds, then add the rest to the back fill till its correct
 
There is a procedure to adding oil on a tr1 i believe if you added all the oil to the valve cover, then you did it wrong. Only add 1/2 quart to the valve cover, then you put 2 quarts in the fill on the rear of the engine, start it for a few seconds, then add the rest to the back fill till its correct
Ok thanks I’ll review. What I recalled was put half in the valve cover (black cap) and half in the dipstick tube. Did the same procedure on both engines, only one is off. But maybe I remembered wrong.
 
What is your logic here? That doesn’t make sense to me
What he means if you just all all the oil at once it will not circulate properly and show overfilled. You add only a few quarts then start it then add small amounts. Start it again. Add and so on. If you just dumped it in it isn't the correct procedure
 
Ok thanks I’ll review. What I recalled was put half in the valve cover (black cap) and half in the dipstick tube. Did the same procedure on both engines, only one is off. But maybe I remembered wrong.
You didn't damage anything, but the service manual is your best friend
 
You didn't damage anything, but the service manual is your best friend

I’m using Napa gold filter instead of the Yamaha filter for the first time. I’m wondering if the Yamaha retains oil in it and the Napa doesn’t. If so I could be over by the filter volume since I did poke a hole in the Yammy filter to drain it. This possibly never occurred to me but I can see how it would support the case for underfilling to start. I’m trying to decide if I will repeat the oil change or just remove some oil and be done w it. I really don’t like mysteries :(
 
Just pull oil out until the level is good.

When you extract the oil you have to be persistent and move back and forth from the extraction hose to the dipstick hole. And the hose has to be small enough to get to the bottom of both, the dipstick hole has a shelf so you have move the hose around to get to the bottom.

If you get all the oil out you will find the oil level at the mid point of the dipstick when adding the full amount specified in the manual.

When adding oil put in 3L to start with and check the oil level, be sure and screw the dipstick in fully, then add as necessary to get to the mid point. Run the engine on the hose for 5 min, let set 5, then check it again.
 
I appreciate the comments and advice. I use a gallon size measuring jug (I’d highly recommend this) vs putting it straight into a pan. So I do know exactly how much came out, there’s no chance of having left oil in there that I don’t know about. Oil capacity is stated to be 3.7, I have gotten out between 3.2 and 3.5 in my oil changes and always used that number to replace what I removed. The only time I didn’t do this is the first time because the dealer filled it to F and it wasn’t getting full rpms (thanks to the forum for this insight!)

It’s frustrating of course because we had to end the day for the whole crew before it even got started. Anyway, live and learn. Going forward I’ll shorten the initial fill to less than what I took out to be sure this doesn’t happen again.
 
At the risk of upsetting you, and that is not my intent, I beg to differ and the evidence bears this out, and I don’t want you or anyone else to miss another day on the water so I have to write this.

The oil capacity is 3.7, but only 3.4 can be put in for an oil change that includes a filter. That’s pretty normal to have a little oil left in the engine by design, especially when there isn’t a drain plug.

By the way, any decent oil filter has an anti drain back valve in it. It looks like a flap under the small holes in the outer perimeter of the oil filter. Especially important in an engine like the TR-1 where the oil filter is inverted.

You extracted 3.2 and put 3.2 back in and the engines were grossly overfilled. The amount specd in the manual for an oil change with filter is 3.4. Therefore there was still a lot of oil in the oil tank and or the pan.

When you changed the oil, did you run the engine for a while before extracting the oil? Did you note the oil level when you pulled the dipstick ?

Very important, do you screw the dipstick in all the way when checking the oil level?

I’ve had the same thing happen to me and my extractor is graduated in Liters so I can see how much is coming out of each engine. And I was screwing the dipstick in all the way.

These are dry sump engines, as such they don’t have an oil pan type sump like a car, they have a separate oil tank, a scavenging pump pulls all the oil out of the flat pan on the bottom of the engine and returns it to the tank. If there is no room in the tank the scavenging pump has no where to send the oil so it will lay in the pan. A dry sump engine eliminates the windage of the crank’s counter balancers from passing through the oil and the parasitic losses associated with that. If this engine is grossly overfilled I can see this being the cause of lower rpms, but not when the oil level is between the marks on the dipstick and the dipstick is screwed in fully to check it, which is how the manual states to check the oil.

I think this is where people lose rpm’s, the dipstick isn’t screwed in when checking / filling the oil and this creates a too high oil level. I ran experiment one day in the lake, my oil level as at the full mark and I made back to back 1 mile runs, I then incrementally decreased the oil level until it was only a 1/4 full, there was zero change in rpm’s.

When I am successful at extracting all the extractable oil from my engines and then incrementally add oil up to the 3.4 specd amount for an oil change with filter as specified in the manual the oil level on the dipstick is in the middle of the dipstick between L and F.

There was a guy in the last few months with a boat like mine that had at last report pulled over two quarts of oil out of each engine and they were still too full. I don’t believe he ever closed the loop on his problem. I was so amazed at how over full they were…. He must have a massive amount of oil in the engine and with each time he pulled oil out the scavenging pump pulled what it could out of the pan and put it into the tank.

Edit: Found the thread here, post #24.

All that to say, when filling after an oil change put in 3.2L and run the engines for five minutes allow it to sit five minutes and then check the oil level, if it’s high then pull out the necessary amount to correct the level, if it’s low add some.
 
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Help needed. Changed oil last night, not my first time. Took out 3.2qts, added 3.2 qts. Very sure on the math there. Dip stick tube is completely full after running engine on the lake for 5 mins. Then waited 5 mins, ran again for 5. Still appears full. Any ideas??? Thank you.

You're applying math to a physics problem.

The dipstick doesn't care how much I take out, nor if I've added the "proper" amount, the dipstick tells me the ACTUAL condition I need to address.

I've seen TONS of threads on here about "add exactly what you took out", but none address the problem of the dipstick telling them "hey, HEY... HAAAYYYYYY you have too much"

The manual refers to the dipstick as the final authority. Screw it in, pull it out, and take the appropriate measures for your oil level.

You don't have to convince anyone here that their method is correct, and it gave infallible results. If you think you have the proper oil level, you have to get your dipstick to agree that you're correct

I agree with your dipstick, and you need to remove some oil. As for everything and everyone else... You'll have an easier time trying to clap with one hand 😁
 
What is your logic here? That doesn’t make sense to me

You have to convince the dipstick, and for once, I'm not referring to @FSH 210 Sport 🤣

The logic is, your dipstick is presenting a conundrum that is easy to address. Right or wrong, for any opinions, the dipstick is playing the part of Tommy Lee Jones. It's telling you something, and it's impartial, honest, and unconcerned with theory or logic

1000037714.jpg
 
Ok thanks I’ll review. What I recalled was put half in the valve cover (black cap) and half in the dipstick tube. Did the same procedure on both engines, only one is off. But maybe I remembered wrong.

@Neutron AND you are correct on the split fill. You have the locations correct too. You got this, hope you have some great memories, chalk this up to forgetting, and accept the wisdom of the dipstick. This is an easy fix for someone who's already done an oil change
 
I appreciate the comments and advice. I use a gallon size measuring jug (I’d highly recommend this) vs putting it straight into a pan. So I do know exactly how much came out, there’s no chance of having left oil in there that I don’t know about. Oil capacity is stated to be 3.7, I have gotten out between 3.2 and 3.5 in my oil changes and always used that number to replace what I removed. The only time I didn’t do this is the first time because the dealer filled it to F and it wasn’t getting full rpms (thanks to the forum for this insight!)

It’s frustrating of course because we had to end the day for the whole crew before it even got started. Anyway, live and learn. Going forward I’ll shorten the initial fill to less than what I took out to be sure this doesn’t happen again.


Another option, so you don't feel like having to call it a day, take an empty quart container along with a turkey blaster and a length of hose, and remove enough to get you comfortable.

Then, party on, Wayne.
 
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